Just a few weeks ago, I led a members’ business debate seeking to secure cross-party support for speaking with one voice to oppose the deeply oppressive and damaging two-child cap and associated rape clause. I sought to phrase my motion such that it would be straightforward for colleagues in other parties—particularly the Labour Party—to support it. I was deeply disappointed that the Labour Party MSPs simply did not sign the motion.

Today’s Scottish Government motion is another opportunity for Labour to show movement, to bow to pressure and to do the right thing. As Labour colleagues decide how to vote at decision time, I will refer them to the questions that I asked of Michael Marra and Paul O’Kane during that debate.

I made it clear that the motion that I had put before Parliament sought, at its heart, to do something very simple: it aimed to put pressure on a UK Conservative Government that is wedded to the rape clause and the two-child limit. It was an opportunity for Labour to join the SNP in defending the 4,000 children in Glasgow and 20,000 children across Scotland who have been pushed into poverty by those UK policies. Their replies illustrated the confusion and chaos that has been part of the Labour position on the matter for a prolonged period.

Mr O’Kane was asked to rule out the rape clause. He said:

“I talk about fundamental reform of universal credit because that is what I believe in. However, unfunded spending commitments cannot be made, because working people will pay the price.”

Wow! All I did was ask Mr O’Kane to reject the rape clause and the two-child cap, but that was the reply.

Mr Marra stated:

“I associate myself entirely with the contents of the motion”—

that I had before Parliament. He went on and said:

“There is very little in it—if anything at all—that I disagree with.

The challenge that is faced by any incoming Chancellor of the Exchequer in this country is that we have to have the money to be able to pay the bills.”—[Official Report, 12 September 2023; c 87, 90]

Mr Marra is, of course, in part right. The issue is that, with the rape clause and the two-child limit, the UK Conservative Government denies the most vulnerable families in Scotland the level of income that they require in order to pay their bills—their electricity bills, gas bills, food bills and shopping bills—to buy clothes for their children and much more. Those are the bills that should focus the minds of the UK Labour Party. Unfortunately, the conclusion that I had to reach then was that UK Labour’s elected representatives in Scotland would rather deny vital support to the most vulnerable citizens than challenge Sir Keir Starmer.

We should not be deflected by any chat about Labour reviewing universal credit. The two-child cap and rape clause can end now, irrespective of any future review of universal credit.

 

I understand that that change could be made now by the Conservative Government. Does Bob Doris recognise that it cannot be made now by the Labour Party?

 
Bob Doris

Can anyone imagine designing a UK benefit system that identifies need and seeks to support those who clearly have such need, but effectively also says, “We’ll help you support your first two children, but you’re on your own with any other siblings. They simply don’t count—their needs don’t count”? At its core, that is precisely what the benefits cap of the two-child limit does, and it does not require a Labour review of universal credit to reach that position.

The Scottish Government has been clear that any benefits system that operates in such a way is immoral and unethical. The Scottish Government has not only condemned the system, but has acted to put in place an alternative dignified system here in Scotland, within our devolved competences and within the constraints of our budgets. The difference has been transformational, with delivery of our game-changing Scottish child payment. We roundly rejected any suggestion of a two-child limit or a rape clause. We designed a system that is based on fairness, dignity and respect. That is all that we are asking Labour to do, as well.

 

Paul O’Kane

Bob Doris

This is not about politics; it is, of course, about people. It is about offering vital support to people and families who are really struggling. I have previously mentioned in the chamber how Glasgow North West Citizens Advice Bureau, which is based in my constituency, has been helping people who have been impacted by the rape clause and the benefits cap. Here is what the bureau told me:

“Our bureau supported a lone parent of four children aged between 14 and four months who needed help with energy debt and support to progress a child maintenance claim. No one plans to be in financial difficulty. The parent found herself in financial difficulty when she separated from her husband and became reliant on universal credit, and she was entitled to support for only two of her four children.”

Glasgow North West Citizens Advice Bureau assisted another lone parent with four children who ranged from 12 years old to three years old. The bureau assisted in applying for health-related benefits for two of the children, who had severe additional support needs. The parent had found himself in financial difficulty when his wife died and he gave up well-paid work to care for his children. In claiming universal credit, he was entitled to support for only two of his four children.

Presiding Officer, imagine experiencing such a bereavement or a relationship breakdown then facing such severe financial hardship under a UK benefits system—not by accident, but by design. That is the reality of the two-child limit in practice. It is also the early years of what a future UK Government is willing to put up with—for how long, we just do not know. Today we can, however, come together as a Scottish Parliament and unite against the current UK system, the two-child cap and the rape clause. The system must change and it must go, and we do not need a review of universal credit to tell us that. What is needed is a conscience, political will and determination to act. Our SNP Government has the conscience, determination and political will. I hope that, at decision time, so will others.

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